Educational Leadership with Principal JL
Principal JL is an educational leader who explores various topics facing educational leaders today! The Mission of this podcast is to inform and inspire other Educational Leaders on how to be their best for their Schools by honing their skills and talents so they may impact their teachers, staff members, students, parents/guardians, and community members positively for their School District! Come with a Growth Mindset as we journey through Educational Leadership!
Educational Leadership with Principal JL
Episode 41: Creating Bull Elephants with 2025 Nebraska High School Principal of the Year: Jerry Mack
When a rural Nebraska principal discovered a behavioral problem with freshmen students, he turned to an unlikely source of inspiration: African bull elephants. Jerry Mack, the 2025 Nebraska State High School Principal of the Year, shares how this wildlife management concept transformed his school's culture by empowering seniors as leaders and mentors.
Growing up poor in small-town Nebraska, Jerry initially entered education simply to coach sports, but discovered a passion for teaching mathematics and eventually leadership. His innovative "bull elephant" approach began with a powerful first-day assembly where he positions seniors as the leaders of the building, then privately coaches them on using their influence responsibly. The results speak volumes – significantly reduced disciplinary issues and a thriving culture where underclassmen eagerly anticipate their future leadership roles.
Beyond student culture, Jerry shares his philosophy on staff culture, viewing it through the lens of family rather than hierarchy. "Families fight," he explains, but those disagreements stay within the building while support extends beyond school walls. This balance of accountability and care has created a tight-knit community at Chadron High School over his 15-year tenure as principal.
The conversation also explores the importance of educational advocacy, with both Jerry and the host sharing their experiences engaging with state legislators to ensure educators' voices are heard in policy decisions. For aspiring administrators, Jerry offers invaluable advice: "The principal is the number one factor that influences culture in a building," emphasizing that consistent messaging and intentional leadership can transform an entire school community.
Connect with Jerry through Chadron High School to learn more about his leadership approaches and how you might adapt them for your educational setting. What leadership strategies could you implement to transform your school's culture?
Connect with Jerry Mack:
email: jerry.mack@chadronschools.net
Chadron X: @ChadronHS
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Today we have a very exciting guest on the podcast, mr Jerry Mack. He has 33 years in education and 15 years as the principal of Chadron High School. Jerry is also the 2025 Nebraska State High School Principal of the Year. I first met Jerry over a phone call about a potential hire. Then we ran into each other at the educational advocacy workshop this past summer and our paths just keep crossing. In this episode we talk about his journey in education, about bull, elephants and a little Husker football. Now let's get to the conversation with Mr Jerry Mack. Welcome everybody back to another exciting episode of the Educational Leadership Podcast. Today in the house I have Mr Jerry Mack. Jerry, welcome to the show.
Jerry Mack:Oh, thanks for having me on. Yeah, we bump into each other over a phone call. I was trying to hire a teacher that you had a reference on, and that's how it all started, and it seems like our paths just keep crossing. So I'm excited to you know, be on and share a little bit with your podcast. I really enjoyed listening to episodes.
Principal JL:Awesome, Jerry. Well, I'm going to go ahead. I'm going to ask the same question. I ask everybody on the podcast why did you become an educator? What inspired you to get into education?
Jerry Mack:Truth is, I remember probably being in sixth grade. I grew up in a small town in central Nebraska, a little town of 1300, maybe 1500 people. We were poor, we were the free lunch kid. We lived in city owned housing, this little brick house on the edge of town, and my backyard neighbor had a house. That's where my buddy lived and I just remember thinking as a young kid, like man, he's got a nice house, they had a basketball hoop outside, they had concrete driveway to dribble the basketball on, even. And I didn't have that. And his dad was a math teacher and a basketball coach.
Jerry Mack:And my young, immature brain just said well, apparently if you want good things, you need to be a math teacher and a basketball coach. And, believe it or not, that was the start. And by the time I was 16, I was pretty convinced I loved high school. I was involved in all activities, clubs, you name it, and so when you're, when you're poor, you hang out at school. You don't want to go home where you don't have much, and so you just stay at school, you get involved in activities, and that's what I did and and I just thought I just enjoyed high school and so, probably like any good principal.
Jerry Mack:I went into this field to be a coach and from there I found out I love teaching, I love being around kids. Things made sense to me. I did not have any plans to be a principal. I was asked to apply for this position. I was teaching in this school for nine years and coaching, and that was a hard decision for me, spending a week trying to decide whether I really wanted to throw my name in the hat to be a principal. And what I found out is it's just such an important job and what we can do for kids and the principal does create and can set the tone for the culture in a building, even though the teachers and the coaches are the ones that really do the work and build the relationships and get your philosophies across. And so I just found out, I kind of rolled into it that way and it's just been an important position.
Jerry Mack:I am a school dad to about 250 to 300 kids a year and that's how I view the job is. I view it from a spot of love where I'm a dad to kids and trying to help those out, and I think it's a. It's a job where it allows me to you know how it is as a principal, the the star athlete doesn't probably need you. It's the kid. It's the quiet kid in the corner. It's the kid with, maybe, disabilities. It's a kid with behaviors. It's a kid with some childhood trauma, that has struggles in a traditional setting and I just found out that I think I have a love for that just to be there for those kids and the importance of that role.
Principal JL:Yeah, that's great. You kind of remind me a little bit of myself growing up. I'll be honest, I did not grow up with a lot. I grew up poor and I kind of had the same thought. But I also didn't want to be a teacher. I wasn't the first thing that was. The furthest thing from my mind was to even go into education. But I do remember growing up I was free and reduced kid. We had what we had, but my mom did a great job of taking care of us. But I do remember like hey, that teacher's got a nice house. So I remember those things as well.
Principal JL:Growing up in Lexington, nebraska, on the south side, we called it the barrio, the hood of Lexington, nebraska, on the South side. We call it the barrio, the hood of Lexington, back in the day. So you know that's where all the poor kids lived and you lived on the North side. You know you had money, you know. So that was the perception. But at the same time I can't, you're kind of making me think that and I kind of remember that as well, and so that's kind of really a unique perspective that you and I share.
Jerry Mack:Well, and you know this, but I feel like I've really stumbled into it more in just the last few years that more and more other school administrators I run into have a similar background, and I think that's what makes us good principals, in the sense that we see kids who might be trying to hide. We see those kids that they need supports. You know, we can take care of kids and if we need to buy extra lunches, if we need to help purchase shoes, whatever those things are that we notice those kids and I think it's a quality that comes with it, that was earned through our own experiences. So, yeah, I think that's part of what makes good principles. Yeah, own experiences. So yeah, I think that's part of what makes good principles.
Principal JL:Yeah, I mean we see things that maybe other people can see because of what we, what we came up through and how we were raised and kind of how we saw the world. But I didn't like go into college thinking education was the way it was, coaching that got me in, just like it did for you, and that was my gateway to get me to where I'm at today. So, jerry, let's talk about the classroom a little bit. You know, I believe you were what. What teacher were you? What kind of teacher? Math teacher?
Jerry Mack:So I was a math teacher. I remember I just wanted to coach. Just like you said I was going to coach. That was why I went into education. I was in college for about three years before. I was like God, maybe, maybe this teaching thing is going to be okay. But I remember coming out of high school thinking, well, I have to coach, I have to teach a subject. And so I was like I was like I don't know. And I was like history, no, and English, I'm not going to read papers at night, at night, no. And I just remember thinking math. I was like I did okay in math in high school and you know, two plus two is four. It was four couple hundred years ago. It's probably not gonna change and I I bet I can do that. It might be easier to grade.
Jerry Mack:That's being a math teacher and that's how I made up my mind to go into math and it ended up being something I really enjoyed. I actually created, I started a statistics class here in this school years ago that the principal gave me leeway on, Like I. Just I found an interest in it and then ended up turning it into AP stats, which was the first time that Chadron High School was offered that and it's still popular today, and so that's kind of how I started. But again, it all started with. You know, I wanted to coach, that's all it was about. And then I just I discovered this love of teaching, yeah, and the subject actually was okay with me. The subject appealed to me and I really enjoyed it and that was part of the reason why I had a hard time stepping out of that role to take an administrative role.
Principal JL:Yeah, no, I can kind of hear you on that. You know, for me I was a PE teacher first but they're like you need to get another endorsement and I was like, oh, I don't know what to do. Kind of like what you're doing. I'm like, well, I did okay at math in high school, so I went into the math route and I went like, oh my God, when did I get myself into you? Cause this is hard like taking, being double indoors, having a PE and a math. But guess what? My math degree got me every job as a teacher and as a coach. It wasn't PE that got me indoors, my math degree that got me into the door and got me the the ability to be a head football coach out of the gate, going in out of college. Now, I was an older college student. I was 28 years old when I graduated college, because I coached six years in football already by that time. But with that, what are some things you learned in the classroom as a math teacher that helped you with your leadership as a principal?
Jerry Mack:Well, you know, a small thing that kind of has morphed is I like data and so when I'm, when we're going to make decisions, I have no problem making decisions based on data. And if that data involves crunching numbers and looking at test scores and looking at demographics, I'm very comfortable with that. And and I think that has become one of my roles on the district administrative team is they know I'll crunch some data, they know I'll get chronic attendance and see whether it's up down and, and so that's been a benefit. Clearly, you know, coaching, coaching is an extension of the classroom and coaching is where you could really build some relationships. And you know and I miss that I got gotta be honest with you that was the part that I really missed rolling into the principal job, but just that work ethic and working with data and and I think has really helped. Um, I, you know I have no problem whatsoever digging through spreadsheets or even building spreadsheets so that I can look at data a little deeper.
Principal JL:Yeah, you were the AP statistic teacher, like that makes sense to me Now. I didn't like teaching chemistry or not chemistry, but calculus or or AP stats or any stat class. I was like give me algebra one to algebra two, give me transitional, give me those tough kids, give me those kids that are struggling with math, because I want to help them with math so they can learn. And those were I stuck. I stayed away from that. Now with, just like you I like to do, I will look at the numbers, I'll make data-driven decisions and I'll show my staff. Here's what the data says. Data don't care about your feelings. That's what it says. You know, yeah, and that's just the way that is. And that's what I love about making decisions as a data with your team and with that you kind of hit on it, building relationships.
Principal JL:Being a coach I will tell you the hardest thing for me to go from teaching and to being a principal was stepping away from coaching. I like to maybe deep dig down into that, because I coach 17 years of football. I loved it. I coach, I coach about five years of wrestling. I didn't coach wrestling right away, but I did coach it here and there at some districts, and I love that too, so much that I became an official for a while for about nine years but then I coached track as well, and so that was like you know.
Principal JL:Not being able to do that with kids was probably one of the hardest decisions, but I learned as a principal that I can impact not just my athletic kids but all kids in my building as a principal and that's where I find my joy right now as a principal is how I can help those kids that are in those struggling modes. You know the kids that. You know that you got to reach out the weakest spot. So kind of talk about you know that decision and stepping away from coaching and teaching and taking that first principal job. Just go go through that.
Jerry Mack:Yeah, and I started teaching in the early nineties. In fact I think it was the fall of 90. And so my first job you, you, you signed on to do three sports and be a class sponsor and do whatever. So I was doing football, basketball and track. And then I and that was in Nebraska and I went to Wyoming for a few years and was basketball. Football and basketball was a head boys basketball for the high school, and when I moved back to Chadron and started here, it was primarily football. I was on the football staff and then I officiated. I thought it was a way to give back to a sport I love. So I officiated basketball for about 15 years and that was a good experience too. But it's it's what you said. You know. Coaching is what I think is where I first discovered that there's certain kids that need you more. And you know the other thing about coaching and maybe I shouldn't say this out loud, but it created a pet peeve of the kid who had the talent and did nothing with it, drove me insane.
Principal JL:There's nothing wrong with that.
Jerry Mack:I have the same old work so hard, but they're not six foot six on the basketball team like the other kid, and. But anyways, coaching allowed you to really see the kids that needed the what I like financial support like help buying shoes, a ride, a ride, yeah, and you go pick them up, and so I think that was important to bring that, and, of course, you can bring that then into your classroom and then you, I think coaching, you just needed to be there for those kids a little bit more, because they did need rides to school. Or you get home. You know what it's like. You get home at midnight off of a bus ride, but we're in Chadron, so we travel four hours on a Friday just to go play football and back, yeah, so you get home late, yeah, and you got. You got parents that aren't aren't there to pick up a kid, and and and so you're, you're in a position where you can serve others better, I think, and that clearly carried over into the principal role.
Principal JL:Yeah, I know. Like you know, when I was at Twin River, I was that football coach there in Genoa for five years I became the bus driver as well, because we were getting short on bus drivers and so I would drive the bus to our away games and drive them home. I almost lost a student one time. That's when I was up. We were up in a plan west hole. We won the game. So you know, we won the game, we beat west hole. We're coming home.
Principal JL:We stopped at mcdonald's and o'neill and I counted all the kids, like okay, we got them all. I'm getting ready to go and I'm heading out of o'neill and here's the kids phone number popping up on my all. I'm getting ready to go and I'm heading out of o'neill and here's the kids phone number popping up on my phone. I'm like what the heck? Hey, coach, where are you guys at? I'm like we're headed out of town. He's like I'm back. I'm back at mcdonald's. I went to the bathroom. I snuck out the back of the bus. I'm like gosh dang, it's hard to go around and and find the kid. And we got him, we didn't lose them.
Principal JL:But at the same time it's like it's like one of those things it's like you know. So I remember like doing those trips and doing those, you know, four hour one ways, and coming home, being late and and being there going. Man, when are these parents are going to get these kids? Yeah, we've taken kids home just to get them. You know where they need to be so they could be safe. So, yeah, I remember those days as well and and I think that's what prepared us to do what we do. And so, with that, you know, you kind of saw, like you know, hey, I'm stepping into the principalship. You know what I'm hearing you say is I want to make a bigger impact, and so let's talk about how have you made an impact at Chadron in high school as their principal?
Jerry Mack:So I'm going to tell you about culture and I'll lead with. I don't know that I'm the smartest critter out there, but I come from a Western background. The town I grew up in was Burwell and that was before it had the Calamus reservoir, and so it was a cowboy town and my dad was a hired man, worked construction. Mom was a high school dropout, so that explains kind of the poor thing. Over my shoulder is still a cowboy hat. I wear one every day to, to, to work. That's just how the kids see me and that's a shout out. I wear that for some of that family heritage and people who are special to me. But working with animals and horses and all these different things, it's just some things kind of make sense to me. And before I became a principal the summer, I finally decided to throw my name in the hat and they roped me in. I think I drew the short straw right away. They closed the applications, interviewed me and it was done, and so I spent that summer.
Jerry Mack:You know how you really think about what impact you want to have and what you want to do. And I ran across this story about bull elephants in a African game reserve where the juvenile herd of elephants. Of these males were killing other wildlife in the reserve. And what the? To fast forward the story wildlife and the reserve. And what the? To fast forward the story, the park rangers finally figured out that the absence of bull elephants was what was creating the problem, and so they found a way to transport in bull elephants and the the phenomenon of the violence in the park. Just it stopped the presence of bull elephants. Now that story has been used for other sociological settings. It's far moreological settings. It's far more than elephants and it's far more than just boys or males.
Jerry Mack:But at the time, remember, I was in the school and and I always I just felt like the majority of our behaviors, our discipline problems in the building where our young kids which I think is pretty common for a lot of schools and I felt like the seniors had always had their hands kind of tied behind their backs and it was just a feeling I had like they could, they could do more, they could be in a different position. So I spent that summer just intentionally thinking about how to create bull elephants in the school and if I could have the bull elephants in the school and I could train them to along my philosophies or along the philosophies of our school, that that would be beneficial, and I wasn't sure how I was going to do it on my first year. But on that opening assembly I talked to all the kids and I do my thing, like principals do, and I dismiss everyone, except for the freshmen and the seniors. And I'm telling you this that I have done this every year Monday morning here. In just a few days, as we record this, I will do it for my 15th time, where I keep the freshmen and the seniors in the in the auditorium, and I talk in front of the freshmen. I just tell them I'm here to work for seniors.
Jerry Mack:This year the seniors have been in this building for three years. They know the expectations that it takes to be a Cardinal, a Chadron Cardinal and on and on and on, and I just go off in front of these freshmen and I even tell them in the line. The quote I use every year and this will be the 15th year is if there's misbehaviors in the hall, seniors will address it, and if a senior tells you to jump, you get in the air before you ask how high. And the seniors love that line and so I've just always kept it in there just for the fun, for the seniors. But then I dismiss the freshmen.
Jerry Mack:I tell the freshmen if you don't know where you're going, if you don't know a classroom, you ask a senior. You, you, you know. So I don't want to be too scared of the seniors, but I think sometimes I think I'm too scary with it and it's probably it's not the best thing to do. But the magic is after the freshmen leave. So after the freshmen leave, now it's just me and the seniors. And so I told the seniors seniors, I have this teed up for you. Do not mess this up. If you leave this auditorium right now and then go get in the face of a freshman in the hall, they're going to think you're a jerk and they're never going to respect you.
Jerry Mack:However, if you'd listen to me and just three times talk to the freshmen, especially the ones you think might be a discipline issue, just talk to them, check in with them, walk up and say do you know the classroom you're going to? Number one they're going to be scared of you after this little talk and they'll probably tell you they don't need help. But you tell you ask them again do you know what classroom you're going to. I can help you, I can point it out to you, or you ask them do you know how the lunch room works? And so I give them these prompts of things they can ask or they can say to check in. And I said, if you would just do that three times, then you will be the seniors that they will remember and talk about at their 10th year class reunion. Because you know, you and I can probably recall being freshmen in a high school and we remember the seniors that were in the building.
Jerry Mack:And so I try to set that up and I really go kind of a little bit deeper with it. And so I try to set that up and I really go kind of a little bit deeper with it. But basically I'm trying to train the seniors on how to leave this room and then go check in with freshmen, and then I do expect them to address behaviors and I have to teach them what they can and can't do there. You know you can't be vulgar, you can peer pressure all the time, and peer pressure just when you use the words peer pressure it sounds negative and so, but peer pressure, so I call it peer influence. It's powerful Kids. A senior talking to a freshman is far more powerful than anything a principal could say Kids look up to them. And so we really set that. And then we turned the seniors out and then we constantly in the building tried to find privileges that seniors get that the other classmen don't get. So I always want the seniors to be seen in a that they have the leadership in the building, that they have the support of administration to be able to address concerns. And so, anyways, to kind of fast forward and skip over some things, did it impact the freshmen behaviors and disciplines were better, a hundred percent. It was so much better. In fact, the most common area where we might have a freshman misbehave is in a freshman classroom, like freshman English, where the seniors aren't. So that kind of tells me that it works outside of the room. And then two was the.
Jerry Mack:I did not anticipate how the culture in the building was going to lean on seniors throughout the school year. Seniors are the ones that come with the ideas from student council to do this, to do that. Seniors are the ones that come. They want to do something different at a student section. Those things, and of course the behaviors of the seniors, has been outstanding. I don't have a lot of negative behaviors from the seniors and it just I can't give it justice on this podcast to tell you that the change that has made, I think, in our culture, in our building, and then getting teachers to buy in and teachers are the ones that come to me often with ideas on how to maybe set the seniors up, give them a privilege or put them in a position and so, like in our sports teams, it just naturally lent that the seniors on those sports teams were the leaders on those sports teams, the activities, the clubs, the student council, all of those different groups.
Jerry Mack:Senior leadership, then I mean it's like cherished and sophomores and juniors know it and they look up to it and they know they're going to be those people someday. And so I just occasionally remind freshmen that you're not ready. You just haven't earned those privileges. You will in three years. You're going to be the leaders in our building in three years. You've got three years to learn it. But this is where you're at now. And so I was just. Sometimes I'm just kind of that old school cowboy guy. I treat freshmen freshmen and I really try to honor seniors and get put them in positions of leadership and it's been a kind of a almost a little mentorship program. Sometimes that wasn't really my intent, it just kind of stumbled into it. But the intentionality of building bull elephants that work for you, for your expectations, in your school, has been really powerful, I think, for Shattern High School For 15 years.
Principal JL:Yeah, I mean I think that is awesome. Like for a year the last three years at Hastings I have been trying to build the culture up and get it to where it is. This is my fourth year at Hastings High, my eighth year as a principal. So going into my fourth year the seniors were my freshmen and it's really cool to see a lot of the seniors, a lot of the upperclassmen, taking the role in the activity fair today with those freshmen talking to them, getting them excited about Hastings High. Then they just tell them the truth. It's just like hey, if you do what you're supposed to do when you get here you'll be set up, but if you don't do what you're supposed to do, you won't be set up for your senior year. And so it was kind of neat to hear the seniors talk about that a little bit today with the freshmen.
Principal JL:I would say a story last year when I did like the whole school assembly last year, a freshman made a comment during the whole school assembly the students turn around I don't know if they're seniors or but they're upperclassmen. They turn around and said we don't do that here. And that like that to me was like okay, they're getting it and I'm thinking this year, I'm thinking it's going to be even better. Now that's. I think that's kind of cool how you talk to the freshmen, have the seniors present, but then you, how you give the seniors like, hey, hey you, there's some guidelines with it, don't be a jerk about it. But the thing is is you're there to serve and help those kids because they're going to need that and they need people to look up to, they need that support, so when they are struggling, they at least have someone they can connect with. And so with our school, we're trying to figure out how we can do that. But I really like that idea. I might steal it from you, jerry
Jerry Mack:I stole stuff from you.
Jerry Mack:So it surprises me how the seniors end up taking the freshmen under their wing. I mean, that's what it ends up building it. I thought it was going to be more peer pressure. You know, like old school peer pressure, I was afraid of locker room. You know, seniors initiating freshmen, and we've never. It's not that. As long as you train it and when you talk with just the seniors only, it's really turned into something special. And, like I said, the rest of the student body, they've experienced it as freshmen too and they know their time is coming. So if a freshman did speak up, like in that assembly, I, we would expect the seniors to be the ones to address it. When we sit in the auditorium, seniors always sit front and center and I tell them they own this place. They will always be front and center in the auditorium. They sit together as a group, as a team, and that that's day one. And so student section seniors get the front row.
Jerry Mack:Yeah, I, I will kick, I don't want to do that here too, yeah yeah, if, I, if and they love it when I see a freshman standing at the side on, I kick that freshman up to the top of the student section because they know it's seniors control it kind of a real light story. That happens every now and then, but I will get like. I remember one time seniors came in or the student body was coming in. After lunch we have open campus. They came in and I have three football boys, seniors, and they come up and say, mr Mack, we need your office. I go, oh, and he said we got some freshmen we need to talk to and I think it was something to do with the team or somebody I don't remember.
Jerry Mack:And the first time that happened I was like I don't know if this is, I let them use my office. I was not in my office and when they walked out, it's, and again, you have to train them what they can and can't do. And but when they walked out they just looked at me and go it's taken care of. I don't know what was said, but that's the stuff that I think happens in the hall or you know, with teams and and again, it's not it's. I hope it doesn't sound negative as I share it because it ends up being just something really positive and really cool. And just again, the whole goal is you as an administrator, are you creating your bull elephants and, as importantly, are you training them so that they follow your expectations. So I've really enjoyed it. It's been so successful I've just every year. I look forward to it.
Principal JL:So, jerry, I have questions now because I'm going to dig into that about training your seniors. So you talked to them that day it's the first day of school is what kind of follow-ups, what kind of things do you do to follow up with the seniors to make sure they're doing the things you ask them to do?
Jerry Mack:Well, you clearly got to point out quickly if they're doing something that isn't going to help them and again they don't they don't want to be perceived as jerks. And so once you kind of point out, if you do this, which is like go flex your power in the school to a freshman on day one, it's not going to work, it works against you, you will not be respected. It just doesn't work that way. What works is basically what you're teaching them is they have to build a relationship. I remember years ago Harry Wong was one of the presenters at educational conferences and had books about talking to your kids outside of your classroom three times over, something that had nothing to do with your class before you came in and tried to teach the kid.
Jerry Mack:And that's kind of what I'm trying to do with the seniors is just you just spending time with them to let them know why that is and what you're establishing.
Jerry Mack:And once that relationship is established, then if you need to address something, it can be.
Jerry Mack:So, yeah, just, and it starts on day one, but you, like you said, you do have to reinforce it and just occasionally catching kids and you have senior meetings at least I do throughout the year because they're doing preparations for graduation. We do senior seminar to talk scholarships and those things, and then every senior is going to take an English and a government class and so you need to get those teachers on board and they help implement and support and establish that in those classrooms. And again, that maybe happened by accident, but those are the teachers, because they're senior teachers. They're sitting in the auditorium because that's where their seniors are on day one. So they have heard that from me year after year and so then they go to their classrooms and then they end up supporting it and then, like I said, just finding authentic ways to let them be seen as the leaders in the school and give them a voice in the school, and there's a lot of ways that that can be done as well.
Principal JL:Yeah, I think. Yeah, that's. I was kind of curious like cause, I know, with kids, we're going to have to reinforce things, we're going to have to follow up, we're going to have to hey, that's probably not the best way to do that, buddy, you know.
Jerry Mack:just so they understand, like you know because other seniors know that too and it's not unusual. You know that one senior boy, he's going to go flex and he's going to really try to throw his voice out or address a freshman and his buddies, the other seniors, they'll point it out too and they're like man, that's not going to work. It doesn't work that way. So it's been. It's more successful than I thought it would be and something that I kind of hang my hat on. I'm kind of proud of that culture that's established where we can really honor and provide some seniority to the, the kids that have been in the building you bet man, that's awesome.
Principal JL:I really enjoy just kind of how you built that culture and you, you know really training those elephant bulls, if I'm saying it right.
Principal JL:Bull elephants, those bull elephants I said it backwards, it just goes to my dyslexia. So the bull elephants and how to get that culture piece within your school, I think that really is really a neat way to do it. I haven't really heard it that way and I think that's really awesome and I think you know when you talk about culture. I think you said an important piece having the teachers and the staff buy into it, because they're the ones that can help you really reinforce the culture you want and that's kind of where we're at. I think the staff after three years really got a good sense of what we're trying to do and the buying in is much more and the staff members that haven't really bought in they might have just left on their own but outside of the same time we have great staff here at Hastings and they've done a nice job of helping those kids to reinforce the things that we do.
Jerry Mack:Yeah, and I've noticed culture with staff is different. It's not really about like you do have some senior is different. It's not really about like you do have some seniority. But it's not really bull elephants. It doesn't work the same with staff. With staff it's about family. Um, that's what's worked.
Jerry Mack:For me is like reminding every now and then it might be once a year at a staff meeting because of whatever's going on, but I'll tell the teachers. It's like we are family and families fight. We're brothers and sisters, like it. It's not going to be unusual that we disagree and we fight with each other over a topic, but that fight never leaves this building. It doesn't go out downtown and outside. Stuff definitely does not come inside of these walls.
Jerry Mack:And because when a family, you know if you go after one of my family members, we're going to have other support coming in and we're going to have each other's backs and being able to relay that part, that culture, that family culture, over and over with staff, has been probably what helps most for staff in the building. And you know there's times where my staff members going there might be a health issue or a family issue or something that's family. So if they're going through it, we're going through it and and I remind them because they're our family, we help them, we support and that's been really special too. And when we do the Friday potlucks, those are family meals, those are family things. That's a family table, you know. And so the culture with the students is about seniority, because of freshman, sophomore, junior, senior, and so there it's bull, elephants and expectations. And then with the, with the staff, it's more about just family and taking care of each other and understanding. It's okay if we disagree once in a while, we're still family.
Principal JL:Yeah, no, I, I think that's right on with with your staff, have a week. I talk about having a community of people that work together. We talk about being a team, and so I really lean into the team concept with my coaching background and, like you said, just like family, you're going to, you're going to have little scuffles with your teammates, but guess what, at the end of the day, we're adults. Yep, we're here to do a job and we're here to help kids learn, and there's a lot of ways to do that. But at the same time, we need to work together, because that's the only way we're going to be able to have success in our school is working together and striving for that same goal.
Principal JL:And, you know, have keeping the expectations up here. Don't lower those expectations. Tell the kids, and I even tell my staff this is my expectation for you. It's because I believe in you, I know you can hit that mark, and if I put the expectation down, I'm settling for meteorocracy and I can't have that. We're going to go up here, and so we talk about that a little bit as well as staff meetings. Jerry, how did I get into the principle of the year in the state of Nebraska. How did you find out?
Jerry Mack:Nebraska, we've got to do a better job. Nebraska, we have to do a better job. So I go to the national conference where the 50 high school principals and some states have a middle school principal also and they were joined together and I'm listening to their stories about all these big events and the unveiling and the surprise announcement of being named principal of the year. I think it was in October. I got a phone call as I'm leaving the local Walmart. I'm in my pickup drive-in and they said don't tell anyone unless you want to maybe tell your, your, your spouse. We will announce it in Decembercember at the state principals conference.
Jerry Mack:So you spend two and a half three months walking around the building. No one knows, they didn't. Somebody had notified the superintendent but she must have got the same story because. So nobody knew anything until december. And you go down to the state principals conference and you give a little speech with a plaque, an absolute honor. It didn't diminish the honor and the humbleness and the shock that it comes, even though it's through a. I mean, we were at that advocacy conference together and that has been the repeated message that I've heard since. Is we the other principals of the year and understand they're just as humble and they're just as simple as you are. You know we don't see anything. I mean, I see special things in our school, but everyone thinks they're in the best school. You know what I mean, and so, anyways, I'm just trying to get comfortable enough to know that I'm in a part of my career that I think I do need to give back and be an advocate for the profession, and I want to take that on, and so that's probably what's changed since then.
Principal JL:Awesome, yeah, I mean, I think it's awesome that you have that opportunity to maybe some doors open through this opportunity. Do you have any doors that have opened since being named the principal of the year?
Jerry Mack:You know the network has expanded and then through NASSP, you know, and it was available all along. But you know, now I'm more aware of it and I'm more aware of the services and they have. I joined the rule principles network and so we had a zoom. Today it only happens about quarterly or every couple of months where you get together and you listen. You know the principal from Ketchikan, alaska, was on with the middle school principal in Texas he's the middle school principal of the year for his state and then just other administrators from states, or in fact there wasn't really any states on there regionally. Today I mean just being able to hear how much more you have in common. So the network since then has really expanded. For me now that's probably been the biggest thing and I'm not gonna lie, you probably get a little more confidence that you maybe you do have something to offer.
Jerry Mack:You know what I mean like yeah maybe I do, maybe we do something that's okay here. That's where, like my bull elephant story, I've I haven't told other administrators that, but I just feel like if we're not sharing with each other so that you can steal what works, we're not we're not rivals. You know we can play each other on a friday night and try to win the football game, but you know we're in this for kids and that has nothing to do with being a rival in this the job. It can be isolating and you can make it a lot more isolating. Or we can have these conversations like you and I are doing, and I stole an idea from you already this week with my staff meeting, and somebody out there listening might steal the bull elephant idea, or maybe it's some other idea, except that we're all in this for the same reason to, to, to support kids and serve the kids in our communities. So I think I'm a little more comfortable to share some of those things.
Principal JL:I think the networking piece is huge. I really didn't network a lot when I was a young you know I'd say young eight years ago. But when I was a new principal I didn't do a lot of networking. I was so worried about leaving my ability and something's going to happen. But I got.
Principal JL:Well, I have systems in place now to where I know my bill is going to be fine. I need to have these opportunities to go visit with other principals. I'm in the EMC conference so we have principal meetings with our conference in the Eastern Midland Conference and Lincoln about once a quarter or more, like twice, I guess three times a year. There's one time I can't go because we host the state softball tournament here in Hastings. It's great to get to connect with those people. But then when you're at admin days, great to connect with those people. When you go to the NASSP National Conference you get to learn from a lot of people from a lot of areas and you go.
Principal JL:You know what.
Principal JL:We're doing some really good things here, like they're doing over there. We're doing okay, like we're doing some of the same stuff and, like you said, it builds that confidence and goes the same stuff and, like you said, it builds that confidence and goes, and that's what this podcast is about is sharing stories of other principles to other principles out there that can maybe get something out of that and maybe take it and go. Maybe, if it worked for Jerry and shatter it, maybe it worked for me wherever I'm at. And so that's the big push for this podcast is to give people other people's ideas and to help each other grow and build that network of leadership to make ourselves better. Because, like you said, you're in Chadron and I'm in Hastings and we're connecting and we're starting to run across each other. Not on purpose, it just happens, and I think that's really neat. I'll be honest, I went to Nebraska Educational Advocacy Workshop because I was mad, and I was mad at the state for passing the FAFSA bill, so where every senior has to fill out a FAFSA.
Jerry Mack:All right.
Principal JL:Or they have to sign a waiver, or Mr Linden has to sign the dang waiver Yep, well, I have pretty good size senior classes. I had to sit down and fill out 72 waivers because I couldn't get families to do it. I knew that was going to happen. So you know what? I don't want another stupid law like that to pass. So what do I? I saw that that email I like I'm going to go to that, I'm going to learn about it because I need to be better at what's going on in my state and I need to speak up and tell our story, because if we do that enough and we get enough of us rounded up to do that, maybe they'll think twice before they start putting stuff on the public school education system.
Principal JL:And then I'm making our jobs even harder than it needs to be. We already have a tough job. You guys need to knock your crap off sometimes. So that's kind of where I'm at with it. So I want to see here why you went to the workshop and what got you involved with the advocacy workshop that the Nebraska Council School administrators put on, with the advocacy workshop that the Nebraska council school administrators put on Very similar action.
Jerry Mack:I'll tell you the one that got me, but part of it is just the confusion of how it works. Now, number one I am seven, seven and a half hour car drive away from the state Capitol where this stuff takes place, and so we rely on other sources to get information, and NCSA has been an organization that does a phenomenal job keeping administrators up to date on these legislative changes. And you know and one of them, I guess the one that got under my skin that I had emailed the state senator on was school libraries, like I get like, okay, if you want to catalog everything that's in the library, so parents know what's in the library, I get it. You know it's going to be in the library, I get it. You know it's going to be more work, but I get it.
Jerry Mack:But then there was discussion about that parents would be notified when a child has checked out a book. And, again, there's probably nothing wrong with that, but it's just so. In my mind it was so ridiculous that this kid can have a smartphone that their parents pay for, that has access to the internet, that they can view and consume anything they want, but now schools have to track and notify parents of what book was in a library a school library, by the way. It isn't like we have a you know porn section over in the corner. You know it's a school library.
Principal JL:The school purchase wait a minute, you don't have that curtain in the back right and I just remember those old days, yeah, you know video stores.
Jerry Mack:Yeah, no sense. To me it's like you know and we're you know. We have one-to-one devices. We hand out devices starting in seventh grade and again, we can't monitor everything that that kid is viewing on a Chromebook, but yet Parents need to know the school library books that they don't trust. And I know parents have ways of some probably do monitor some use, but you can't control the Wi-Fi network your kid is on when they have a device or a phone and anyways, it just felt like that kind of stuff. That was one of them, that's like. It just feels like extra work, and the FAFSA one was another prime example. It's just extra work for people that I don't know.
Jerry Mack:I don't know that it completely accomplishes what I think they were hoping to anyway, but so, anyways, for me, going to that advocacy conference, I wanted to learn the process of where I need to understand the language, to know where in the process a bill is before it becomes a bill. That was probably one of the main things like am I emailing my senator at the right time, or is my senator involved in that, or is my senator even voted on that yet? And so I wanted to know the timeline of what it looked like for a bill going through and just to learn more about that. And then, as you know, we're the ones doing the job, we're the ones that understand school and no school. Probably. You know, we need to find a way to get our voice out to the state senators and perhaps our public, to let them know what is really happening in schools and what it looks like. So, yeah, that's all part of it.
Principal JL:Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's that I agree, right there. I mean, yeah, that's that I agree, right there. I mean I totally forgot about that library until you brought it up. I mean this is ridiculous, right, like you said, kids have access to a lot of things on their phone that parents don't regulate. But yeah, the state wants to regulate what you get out of the library. And the thing is, is our libraries like for us, you can, you want to know what's in our library? We have it out there, you can look through it. We don't care, right? You know we don't. We don't really worry about what's in our library. But there are some people already got this. This book's been in there for 30 years and you're like this isn't new, but so like I think that's really great.
Principal JL:We kind of have that same you know story. We got fed up with stuff. We're like you know what I got to do something about that? And I know one of the things I have done since the advocacy workshop is I've reached out to my state Senator. Now, I kind of knew the state Senator before he became a state Senator, so I had that in the bag.
Principal JL:Dan Lonowski, here at Adams County, was a wrestling coach for a long time out at Adams Central, as you know, and I was a wrestling coach so I ran into him a few times that way. But also I was an official so I ran into him on that end and so I've kind of known him, great guy. But at the same time I'm just like hey, dan, if there's any time you want to come to Hastings high, come on over, I will show you what we're about. I want you to show us what we're doing, cause I know he knows the Adams central district real well, cause he was a part of that. He was a teacher and coach. But I come over to Hastings high I will show you what's up.
Principal JL:You know, if you have any questions about anything that's coming up, because he's actually on the education committee there you go. So I'm like, oh, I do that because I've talked to him and I'm like going, if there's anything educationally that's coming up and you would like some insights, let me know, I'll give it to you. I'll help you with that. I want to be more of a proponent, and so have you done anything like that since that? Cause they kind of talked to us about trying to build that relationship with your with your local Senator. So what are some things maybe you've done in the same capacity?
Jerry Mack:And you know this but our audience might not. My wife is also a principal. She's an elementary principal here in Chadron. She has kindergarten, first grade, second. She actually has the preschool as well, and so we're both.
Jerry Mack:We were both at that advocacy conference and so while we were there, we went across the street to across the street to the state Capitol. We found the office and got to visit with the legislative aid for our state Senator. They weren't in session, so our Senator wasn't there, and we established a relationship there, left notes there in the office and then came back and then was able to hear from our state senator and just said hey, I'm here, I'm, this is a high performing school. If you ever run into something where you want to know what is it that's happening in schools, just reach out to us. And then the summer, doing the you know the your local County fair, your little uh for us and shattering his fur trade days.
Jerry Mack:So we have a parade and she's there and my, my wife uh, sought her out and said hey, I know we kind of exchanged emails since that advocacy conference. I just wanted to introduce myself in person, my husband and I and I cause I was doing school tours at the time for alumni, and so she just said my husband and I are here if you ever want to know what's going on. Anyways, just made a personal contact that day as well, and we got some feedback, or it sounded like our senator was interested in having connections in education, even though she's not on the education committee, and so I just felt like we've at least established ourself as a connection. I clearly feel more confident to reach out during the next session if there's something that I think we need to advocate for or against.
Principal JL:Yeah, and I think honestly. I think this is a great time just to let people know your state legislation is going to bring in laws that you're going to have to abide by, and so, before it becomes a law, like we do with our kids and our families, we need to start building those relationships with those state senators or legislators that create those laws that are going to affect our job. If we don't do that, they're not going to be able to have a connection with us. When they're trying to pass something, we can go, hey, this is what's good about it, this is maybe not so what's good about it? So let's talk about it.
Principal JL:I think we, as principals, have to do a better job of doing that, because we're the ones doing the work, we're doing the grind, we're the ones in the building. We see the families, we know this is going to be a great idea or this is something that. Why are you doing this? This isn't that. You know this isn't everything that you think it's going to be, because all you're doing is doing extra work for us and we're already in the shortage and you're going to make it worse by doing some of this stuff.
Principal JL:So I think, building that relationship. We have to get better in our field to do it. I think that's awesome that you've done that. Be intentional, like we do with our kids and our staff. We got to do that on that side and I think that's leveling up our profession right, and I think that's where we really got to get to, and it doesn't matter if you're in Nebraska or if you're in Kansas or in California wherever you're at, you need to have relationships with those people and help them understand how schools are working so they can make better decisions for schools.
Jerry Mack:Yep, yeah, and my goal is that you know my Senator knows my name when I contact you, know if I reach out or email that you know. I just wanted to know it's a. It's a real person with a real job in this real field. So, yeah, I couldn't agree more. It doesn't matter what state you're in. I think administrators need to make that connection and be there to advocate for the profession and for your kids.
Principal JL:You bet. Yeah, that's kind of what we're doing. We're advocating for our profession, but we're also advocating for our staff, our kids and our whole system. And I think for Nebraska we have great public education. We're not broke. We're not broken like other states are with their state public schools. I think we are one of the best out there when it comes to just how we do it and kind of having the unit camera in the state but also having, you know, nebraska Department of Education is a person that is not elected. They're not appointed by a governor. They're actually someone has to interview for the job and they have to get selected by a board and the board controls the commissioner of the Nebraska and they work with the governor but at the same time, they're not appointed by that person. That's what helps us not having to change things every four years because it's whatever governor is in power at the time. So you know, so I think we have a benefit to that, but at the same time, you have to get active in those things to help the profession, help your kids and help your staff. And I think, right on there Now, jerry, we've kind of talked a lot, a lot of things.
Principal JL:I'm really enjoying this conversation, man. This has been a lot of fun. Jerry, what's next for you? What's coming up on the horizon? You know what, what's going on in Jerry's world when it comes in the future at Shattering, and what you got anything cooking up there.
Jerry Mack:Yeah, professionally, it's trying to find avenues to give back. It's trying to find avenues because the truth is, I don't know the average length of a tenure of an administrator or a principal, but a lot of principals don't make it 10 years. They don't go. You know, it seemed like when we were kids the principals had all been the principal for 30 years. I don't know that that happens a lot anymore. And so, you know, as we get 10 years of experience, 15 years of experience, we have the experience where you know you're a veteran and you need to find ways to somehow have an impact or a cultural impact outside of the school walls. And I think that's where I'm at in my career. You know, I don't know how many more years I'll go in a principal position just because retirement you know what is it? They say convicts and educators are the two that talk about how many years I got 12.
Jerry Mack:Right, I got three, so but it's like you know what. What can I do number one for, for our community, for shadron, public schools, what can I do for shadron to really establish it and to reach out, because we I'll be honest with you we just have a lot of ridiculous successes academically. But number two, what can I do for the profession and reach out beyond and be able to share something and leave something behind that might help someone else? So, professionally, I think it's just trying to find those avenues of where do I have some value to network a little more, jeff, and you know our state.
Jerry Mack:I'm in the northwest corner of the state of Nebraska. We're a little over a hundred miles from the nearest population center, where there's 10,000 people, and so, by federal definitions, that's the frontier, and so for us I think that's always been, or for me anyway it's like, well, I'm not going to get involved with Lincoln because it's a seven hour drive, it's just too far. And I'm not going to get involved with Lincoln because it's a it's a seven hour drive, you know it's just too far, and I I'm trying to just get over that Like it's. Uh, it doesn't matter the distance or the time, it's still worth reaching out and, and you know, in the world of technology and zoom you know since COVID now most things are on zoom and you can be a part of. So I just want to find out where where I can help out where I can learn more, learn more and share more.
Principal JL:If you guys don't know Chadron's beautiful man, they got Fort Robinson state park up there. They're not very far from the black Hills, I mean it's. It's gorgeous up there. I kind of get jealous Cause I know I know the area enough to know that it's really really neat little area. I don't know you guys are about what 5,000- 6,000, I think, as a community. Um, you have a, you know, division two college there as well, and so Shatter has got a lot of cool things out there.
Principal JL:My wife's originally from Bayard, Nebraska, so I go out to the panhandle I've been out there, you know, visiting family and kind of know what it is, what it's like out there, and I will tell people if you get a chance to go up there and vacation or, you know, go to the state park up at Fort Robinson. It's fantastic. I would recommend it. And when I coached at Hershey we go to Chadron for the football clinic. Every year we take our kids and do the football camp for our the football clinic. Every year we take our kids and do the football camp and at the end of every football camp we go up the go up the Chadron Hill and we get a picture and and do all those things. So I mean I have a lot of great memories being in Chadron and doing those things. I even remember when Danny Woodhead was, you know, playing football out there.
Principal JL:I followed his career because I actually knew him when he was a high schooler. My best friend lived in North Platte. He was one of the youth counselors at the youth group in church and Danny was a part of that church family so I got to know him that way. So I kind of followed his career. But yeah, he was phenomenal running back out at Chadron State there. So there's a lot of one of my wrestling coaches a former Chadron State wrestler and then the guy that took over the wrestling program at twin river was a two-time national champion from Chadron State and so there's I got a lot of connect, a lot of people I I've ran into about, you know, just shattering, so I will let people know like it's a really great place out there and there's not.
Jerry Mack:A lot of people know that nebraska has a forest. So the nebraska national forest yeah, it takes up almost 40 percent of our school district lands is nebraska national forest, or the what we call the nebraska game of parks, which is all government land, and you know people talk about, well, nebraska game of parks, which is all government land and you know people talk about, well, nebraska is just cornfields, not in this part of the state. No, that's.
Principal JL:That's the I call that god country up there. Yeah, we're the black hills and all that so yeah, no, that's pretty great up there. Now, jerry, I kind of want to ask you a question, because there might be people listening to this podcast that might are thinking about that step into leadership. Hey, I'm thinking about becoming a principal. Maybe it's a system principal, maybe it's a head principal. What advice would you give to an aspiring educator out there that wants to step into this role?
Jerry Mack:A couple of things come to mind. One is to get connected, to understand that. You know, networking is just what principals do. We reach out to each other, we call the principal down the road. Like I said, we can play against each other, cheer against each other on a Friday night, but on Monday morning we're calling each other to. You know, get ideas. And just to understand that's part of the role of being a principal is networking and leaning. Like I just want to know policy, like I called you last spring over one and I learned about staff and a you know a little policy you guys use with a date and may and anyways. That's where we get ideas, is leaning on each other and it's. It's not an ego job that way. It's about kids, it's not about us, and so that comes to mind.
Jerry Mack:But the more important thing I would say for advice was I really struggled to take the position. I knew I enjoyed coaching, I knew I enjoyed teaching and I knew it would be a time commitment. But I really struggled because I just wanted to know can you really make an impact on a school as a principal? And so what I'm going to say here is I think the principal is the number one factor that influences the culture in a building the culture with the staff, the culture with the students. I'm not saying that to take credit. I'm saying that because a principal has to consistently get a message out there. A principal has to consistently and revisit that message quite often to establish a culture.
Jerry Mack:And so if you're considering becoming a principal or taking an administrative role, I would tell you that it is so important. I mean, you're working with law enforcement to help kids, you're working with DHHS to support families, you're working with different entities to find ways to buy meals for kids and all these things we do. It's so important, but you get to have an impact on hundreds of kids versus what I could do in a classroom or the 50 kids or 20 kids I could have the impact on as a coach. It's at a different level perhaps, but it is a culture that a principal really does have their thumb on, that can really influence for an entire school. And so it's an important position and just to reach out and talk to each other to help yourself through the vastness of the job that we deal with and that's why we have each other that we can lean on and those support systems.
Principal JL:Yeah, you bet. I mean you hit all the things right there. If you're going to be, if you're aspiring principal man, take what he just said to heart, because you can have an impact Now, your impact, you want it to be positive, but if you want to have a negative impact, you can too. On that, you don't want to do that. Trust me, you'll be out of a job pretty quick when it comes to that. You don't want to be that authoritarian leader.
Principal JL:But we're talking about that person that's going to come in. They're going to support their staff. They're going to support their staff. They're going to support their students. But they're leading the way, they're showing people. You know what this is, where we're going to go. You have to be able to paint the vision. You got to be able to paint the vision and get people behind it. That's part of that job too. When you are becoming a principal is knowing how to do that, and it takes time. You're not going to be perfect at it, and when people know you're a brand new principle, they give you grace. They understand that you're learning and you're trying to figure it out. There's not a lot of things out there that gets you prepared like the real thing, but I'm hoping this podcast helps a little bit when it comes down to it. So you know, you know and those things like that. So, jerry, if people want to reach out and connect with you about the work that you're doing there in Shadron, how could they do that?
Jerry Mack:You know, the easiest thing for me is just to have you contact the school Chadron High School in Chadron, Nebraska. It's something that can certainly be Googled. Maybe there's some footnotes in here so you can see how Chadron is spelled because it starts C-H-A here, so you can see how Shadron is spelled because it starts C-H-A. And then I am on Twitter. But I'll be honest with you. I live through the school accounts, more so the at Chadron HS, at Shadron high school. We, you know they were very active on social media. That's, those are my accounts. I have some personal Instagram and Twitter accounts that I, you know, I'm a stalker, you know, looking at news and checking out what the Huskers are doing, you know, but for the most part it's it's through the school account. So I would just say, reach out to the school and give a call.
Principal JL:Yeah, yeah, I'll put that on show. So if you guys want to get ahold of them, it's going to be in the show notes. I mean whenever, wherever you guys listen to the podcast, because it could be anywhere, because I have it on all major platforms. All right, jerry, it's been a great conversation, but before we go, you said Husker football. You said Husker football. I'm a huge Husker fan. I want to know will Coach Rhule get it done this year? Will we be 8, 9, 10 wins? I don't know. I hear a lot of positive. I mean, you go listen to coach Ekeler's press conference yesterday. Oh, it gets you fired up, man, it gets you fired up. So what would I know? What Jerry thinks about Husker football in 2025?
Jerry Mack:You brought up coach Ekeler. He used a line about I think it was about kick return. He goes remember the movie days of thunder? And there's all the smoke and the car wreck. You just got to go through it. You just got to go through the smoke and I'm thinking husker football. You need to just go through the smoke. We need to get it. You're from out of state. You don't understand the importance of this conversation Jeff and I are having right now, but we call it drinking the Kool-Aid every year. And I tell you what I'm so excited that I think coach rule just how grounded he is, the positive messaging he does the school administrators we could just steal from that. He's so consistent with the, both the messaging that he does and how he promotes his players and his program. Gosh, if they get 10 wins, I tell myself I would just be absolutely thrilled and I will be upset if we don't get 11th.
Principal JL:Yeah that's right, we're always one. Hey, we can go 10 wins and be like man, this is a great year, but maybe we should have won that other one. Yeah, we might as well get 11th. Like, okay, for me, great year, but, man, we should have won that other one. That's just the way it is. We're going to get 11. Like, okay, for me I'm going cautiously optimistic. I think they're going to have a great season, but for me I'm going just get the seven. Please Just get the seven. I know, get the seven. Anything past seven I'll be happy with, but the same, if they start winning eight, nine, I'm gonna be like you probably should have done this you know, but yeah, I'm excited about it.
Principal JL:Another thing coach Ekeler was saying was oh, what was it he was talking about is about leadership, right, you know, leading by example and I want to kind of make this point and I thought it was really interesting it's like leading by example, it's like a myth. It's one of those things. We don't lead by example, we just do it, we just lead. We don't just, you know, lead by example, we just do the job and everything that we do day by day, the little things we do, the paying attention to detail, those things is where the leadership really goes. And so, understanding that your day by day, your little things that you do every day, build to those big successes.
Principal JL:Now, some people may disagree with the, you know, leading by example. I feel like modeling is a great way to lead at times, huddling is a great way to lead at times, but at the same time, I just thought it was a really interesting perspective from Coach Ekeler when I came down to it, because I always talk about what are you going to get better at today, teachers? What are you going to get better today at students? You find something to get better at and I'm going to figure out what am I going to get better at today, and so I thought that was a really interesting quote from yesterday.
Jerry Mack:A quick example. I was thinking, like man, there's mud on the floor, on the tile, or a water spill, you just grab a mop and then I, I'm out there mopping and then you know I have a young teacher goes oh, servant leadership, I, I'm not trying to lead by example, I'm doing exactly what you just said. I'm just, you'm just, you're just doing it and it you are reading, you, you are a modeling, you're modeling, but I didn't think I was being intentional. It's just that spreads, you know, stepping in and doing what needs to be done is is all of a sudden it's leadership and I was like I, it just needed, you know yeah, no, I hear you.
Principal JL:I have very similar experiences, like there could be a spill on the floor, some kid dropped their water bottle and it's everywhere. I I've been a big school. I have a thousand students, I have 119 staff, 120. I just hired my last one, so I have 120. I just hired the last, my last para. I have all my staff filled for the year. I'm excited, all right, nonetheless.
Principal JL:But I just go grab a mop and did it, I like. I guys, I worked at mcdonald, that was my first job. I know how to mop a dang floor. So there's just things that you do, that you just do. You don't like. You don't like, you just do it. It's just part of like being. Then you know what those people, those custodial staff, when they see you do that they're like well, where does this guy come from? Yeah, we're not used to, not used to the principal doing those things, but you know what? That's what we do. We want to, we want to make things.
Principal JL:I will tell you this morning, Jerry, I got a little bit mad because our grounds people weren't getting things taken care of. So this morning at 5:30, I went to the school and did some weed whacking and blowing. I like I ain't waiting, I'm not waiting around for him. I want this to look good. I don't want our students to see this part of our building looking trashy, and so I get upset when my building doesn't look good and we have to take care of what we have because I have an old building. But at the same time, we want our kids to be proud of where they go and we want you know we don't take care of the things we have. They're not going to take care of them. So we'll go on forever on this one, jerry.
Principal JL:But I really appreciate the conversation. You know all else fails go Big Red coming up this year. Jerry, I wish you and the Chadron Cardinals well this year. You're doing great things out there and I'm excited about our and forging this relationship and you know I'm learning from you and as humbling that you learned from me as well, and I just think this is going to be a fun relationship as we build it out. I'm over the years. So, jerry, I really appreciate you. I really appreciate you being on the podcast today, man.
Jerry Mack:Absolutely Appreciate you having me. It's, it's a lot of, and I've enjoyed listening to episodes.
Principal JL:What a conversation with Mr Jerry Mack Love learning about his journey in educational leadership, his insights on how to build up a school culture and the advice he gives to aspiring educational leaders everywhere. If this episode resonates with you, please share it with someone who needs to hear it. And until next time, be curious and 1% better.
