Episode 53: You Don't Have to Leave to Lead: Dr. Chris Jochum's Leadership Journey

What if the most powerful leaders in a school aren’t the ones with the titles? We sit down with Dr. Chris Jochum department chair, coach, and author of You Don’t Have To Leave To Lead, to unpack how everyday teachers can move culture, improve learning, and lift colleagues without stepping out of the classroom.

Chris traces his journey from rural roots and language classrooms to higher education, highlighting mentors who asked bigger questions at pivotal moments. We break down the research connecting teacher leadership to student achievement, morale, and retention, then translate it into concrete practices: craft a clear personal mission, align core values to daily actions, navigate conflict with calm, and use small, compounding habits to build a resilient culture. You’ll hear why shared leadership outperforms command-and-control, and how a coaching mindset, support, feedback, and trust frees teachers to take smart risks.

For Principals and APs, Chris lays out practical moves you can implement this week. Know your roster so you can align strengths and goals. Run stay interviews to get ahead of attrition. Celebrate small wins, coach privately, and make data human by pairing outcomes with experience. For teachers weighing their next step, we explore the bell curve test: are you one tough day from quitting or ready to serve at a larger scale? Either way, a personal leadership mission can anchor your choices and multiply your impact.

If you care about teacher retention, school culture, and student success, this conversation offers a clear playbook. Listen, take one habit into practice tomorrow, and watch the 1% gains add up. If the ideas resonate, follow Chris at cjleadership.com, share this episode with a colleague, and leave a quick review so others can find the show.

Connect with Dr. Chris Jochum:

Dr. Chris Jochum's Website:

email: chris@cjleadership.com 

Dr. Chris Jochum's Books:

You Don't Have to Leave to Lead: A Practical Guide to Teacher Leadership (Amazon)

The Department Chair: A Practical Guide to Effective Leadership (Amazon)

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Chapters

• 0:00 Meet Dr. Chris Jochum
• 4:32 Early Inspirations To Teach
• 8:48 Leadership’s Ripple Beyond Titles
• 13:34 From K‑12 To Higher Ed
• 19:44 Why Study Leadership
• 26:25 The Department Chair Playbook
• 30:35 You Don’t Have To Leave To Lead
• 38:25 Shared Leadership And Culture

Transcript

Principal JL: 1:59

Have you thought about leaving the classroom to step into a leadership role? Well, today's guest says you don't have to leave to leave. Today we welcome in Dr. Chris Jochum. He is the founder and CEO of CJ Leadership Solutions, and a trusted speaker, trainer, coach, and thought leader. He is currently the chair of the Department of Teacher Education at Fort Hayes State University. He's also the author of two powerful books. The Department Chair, a practical guide to effective leadership. And his newest release, You Don't Have to Leave to Lead, a Practical Guide to Teacher Leadership. Chris has spent almost three decades in the K-12 in higher education, empowering people to lead from where they are. And today we get to unpack that leadership journey. Where it began, what shaped it, and what he's doing now to strengthen schools and organizations everywhere. Now let's get into the conversation with Dr. Chris Jochum. Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Educational Leadership Podcast. Today I have Dr. Chris Jochum in the house. Chris, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you. Excited to be here. All right, I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to start you off like I do every guest on this show and ask you this one question. What inspired you to become an educator?

Dr. Chris Jochum: 3:38

Well, I assume that this is very common, certainly when you ask educators. And when you say educator, I think of what got me into K-12. And, you know, you and I, I think we have a lot in common in terms of our home state and even having a rural upbringing. And what really inspired me were the wonderful teachers and coaches that I had growing up. You know, in a small town where maybe the most people that have a college education are probably working at the school. And again, I'm not saying I was always the best student. They I probably challenged them at times, but just having really good teachers and mentors is what inspired me, probably at an early age, to start at least considering being a teacher.

Principal JL: 4:27

There you go. So what inspired you to get into you know teaching Spanish and English as a second language as a teacher when you got into that role?

Dr. Chris Jochum: 4:38

Yeah, well, you know, I picked my profession first and my my subject second. And I was a high school teacher because I probably didn't, I wasn't good enough to teach elementary and kindergarten. Those folks, you know, there's a special place in heaven for those folks. But, you know, it I go back, Jeff, to uh many, many years ago in my small rural Nebraska community, we would usually have one or two foreign exchange students a year. And the year that I was taking high school Spanish coincided with us having an exchange student in my class. She was from Japan. And I thought it was so cool that someone my age could learn another language, go to another country. And, you know, and sometimes, as I joke, Spanish class was one of the few classes. I think I made it through all school year without having to go to the office at least once. So I was good at it. And, you know, I go back 30 plus years ago to when that happened, and that really planted the seed for me to not only be a teacher, but to serve as an educator through foreign language and helping others through whether it's English as a second language or being a high school Spanish teacher, which you know turned into in college my ability and my love of study abroad and really opened it up. So I go back to that influence. I think I was a sophomore in high school, and that's what really got me started on ESL foreign language and bilingual education.

Principal JL: 6:11

All right. So during that time as a teacher, is there a story or something that you learned as a teacher that helped you into your leadership that you have today?

Dr. Chris Jochum: 6:23

Wow. Yeah, there are many instances. I think when people ask me about leadership journey, again, I've been fortunate to have had great role models as teachers, coaches. I think as people like you and others, I tended to have some leadership leanings, you know, early on. You know, there was a few years I was the class president or things like that. Uh but I think overall seeing the effect of family members and friends, so whether they're in education or not, but I always like to remind people that leaders really do make all the difference. Leaders can be the reason that somebody either buys a house or sells a house, that they either pack a U-Haul or unpack a U-Haul. And so I would just say, overall, what really got me focused on how can I be a better leader and how can I help others lead is that realization that the best way to improve an organization is to improve and affect the leader. And leaders affect everyone. Leaders affect everyone. There are human beings that sit around the dinner table, and kids know their parents' boss's name for better or worse. There are group techs out there. If you're a leader, your name's in those group texts. And so I think that's really going back really about 20 years, where I started being intentional and saying, if I'm ever in a formalized leadership role, how can I do this better and help others?

Principal JL: 7:57

You bet. I kind of I don't know if you don't know if you remember Dr. Troxel or Mike Troxel, not not Dr. Troxel, but Mike, you remember Mike Troxel?

Dr. Chris Jochum: 8:06

Oh my gosh. Well, I'll just say it here. Trox is one of the reasons I became a teacher. Mike Troxel was my he was my biology teacher starting from fifth grade all the way to my junior year. And yes, if you're listening, Trox, hey, you I you're doing, you know, you had an influence on my life. But yes, yes, I know Mr. Troxel very well.

Principal JL: 8:28

Yeah. So Mike Troxel was my principal when I was teaching at Hershey. And so when I became when I was studying to get my master's in administration, he was my administrator, he was my principal that I would, you know, basically shadow and learn from. And and so that's my connection to Mike. I knew he was at Hurt Sutherland for a long time, but then he was a principal there. Then he came over to Hershey. Him and Dr. Cunning were there when I was at that time. And so I actually got to watch Mike Troxel retire. But one thing he kind of told me is like, you know, you know what they do with good teachers? They make them administrators. So and so I thought that was kind of funny. But yeah, so we went through that whole deal. And so it was really great to see what I learned a lot about leadership is by watching the people that were leading the building. So the people that were in leadership roles, such as you know, Mr. Gray at Twin River, Mr. Higher at Twin River, Mike Troxel, Dr. Cunning, Hershey, you know, Brian Begley, you know, all these principals that I got to watch lead, I got to take something from that, and that informed my leadership today. That was really great that you share that because I started thinking about all the leaders that I watched as a teacher. And I thought maybe we might have that connection with Mike Troxel.

Dr. Chris Jochum: 9:55

And people listening, I, you know, it's a small world. I did not know that. But honestly, when I list my influences and I say, you know, leadership is influence regardless of title. And just growing up when Troxel before he became principal, he was still one of the most influential people in the building. And Dr. Cunning, if you're listening, I still apologize for the time in second grade that I got called to your office because I was running around at the football game and shouldn't have been. I mean, since my my dad and Mike are dear friends of over 40 years, I can promise you that I got it worse when I got home. But yes, that's another person that I know very well.

Principal JL: 10:33

There you go. Yeah, that's awesome. You know, we've been teaching. So, what motivated you to go from the high school setting and get into upper post-secondary education? What motivated you? What was there a story behind that? What was it that got you to go from high school to to college?

Dr. Chris Jochum: 10:55

Yeah, I well, I didn't necessarily start out early on saying I'm gonna end up in the college level, right? As you said, it's mentoring, it's people pulling you aside, tapping you on the shoulder. So when I was doing my undergrad, I had a had an influential teacher named Dr. Tom Contney, and he taught at University of Nebraska Kearney. And great teacher, very energetic, worked with Madeline Hunter way back when at UCLA. And I remember one time he uh he he called me, he said, Hey, why don't you stop by my office tomorrow? And so my default is, well, I've been coming to class doing all the things. And I'll never forget, he looked at me and he said, Have you ever thought about teaching teachers? Now I'm like a junior or senior in college, I haven't even been a real teacher yet, right? I said, I don't know, sir. I'm just trying to get out of college. And he said, Oh, I know, but I just wanted you to know that I think maybe down the road, after you get some experience, I see a few things in you. I think you'd be really good at teaching teachers. Okay, I kind of filed that away, had a chance to go right into being a high school teacher after I graduated. My my college department asked me if I wanted to be a graduate assistant. Now, I thought a graduate assistant was a football coach because you know I'm a first-generation college student, and you know, I used to watch football and they'd say so and so's the GA. And when they told me that I could teach a little, go back to Mexico, all those things. So I got a taste of higher ed, but I wanted to get into K-12. And I think I was kind of at a crossroads where I felt as though maybe I was ready to move in to a different role. I had my license to be a secondary principal. And it just so happened, one thing led to another, and I had an opportunity because I was also working on my PhD at the time, just had an opportunity to get into higher education. And so for nine years, I I prepared future teachers. Eight of those years, I was at at my alma mater for my undergrad and graduate Nebraska Kearney and worked with future foreign language teachers and ESL teachers. So glad I did it. Certainly love my time in in K-12 and wonder what might have been had I gone down the other path to do what folks like you do, Jeff. But uh just had somebody tap me on the shoulder early on and maybe set my sights on teaching teachers.

Principal JL: 13:58

Awesome. Well, that's really great. I mean, someday I thought about how could I help give back and help teach teachers down the road just because of you know the experiences I have, I think that would be kind of fun and exciting to do. So I appreciate the work you do do because I think you know they need you know a dose of reality. This is what it's really like out there, guys. And you know, I think some people you know may not do that at the college level, and they're just sticking with theories and probabilities and what may or may work. And so when you're able to speak to the things that you've seen work and you know people in the business doing the groundwork, you know, being able to speak to that is really awesome. So you did some research, right? Yes. So what drew you to leadership development as your primary area of research?

Dr. Chris Jochum: 14:45

Well, you know, one of the things that when you when you decide to make a career, at least if you want to stick around and get tenured and promoted in higher ed, you have to research to some degree. Now, my heart is with regional comprehensives, such as the school I work at now, such as the school you and I attended in Nebraska Kearney. I really believe in the transformative life experiences they they give people, certainly first gen students like myself. But nonetheless, you have to research a little bit. And so, you know, early on in my career, I always I always tell people I'm mentoring, research what's in your backyard. If you're a teacher scholar, research what you can observe, what interests you. And you know, going back to gosh, probably the late 90s, when I watched my first John Maxwell video. And I I again I've always been intrigued by people that can shape culture, by coaches that turn things around, by bosses that, you know, do all those things. And it planted a seed early on that, oh, this there's a science to this. You can actually learn and get better at this. And I saw the connection right away to being a classroom teacher. And so I've always carried that with me. Like I said, I've always had great mentors in my life, people that have, you know, have been principals, superintendents, college presidents, et cetera. And as I grew and matured and got into certainly a formal leadership role, I decided, you know, we write the books we wish we had. We are most qualified to help the person we once were. And about six years ago, I decided to write a book on chair leadership to help people in universities. And then I started about that time teaching a class on teacher leadership. And the more I learned about that, and the more I learned that, you know, really leadership is leadership, that's what brought me to my most recent book, You Don't Have to Leave to Lead a Practical Guide to Teacher Leadership. So again, I've always been into that as someone that I don't know if I have a lot of hobbies, but one of them is I'm leadership is my hobby, getting better at that, mentoring others, speaking on it, writing about it. Not because I have all the answers, but probably the opposite. I've made a lot of mistakes, and these are things I wish I would have been told along the way. And at the end of the day, as you know, it's one of those things that it's it can make a difference in in people's lives, both personally and professionally. So that's why I'm real passionate about it and hopefully can help people with it.

Principal JL: 17:18

Yeah. No, that's awesome. That's great. I know, you know, like you said earlier before, I mean, organizations are the their success is really dictated by the person sitting in the seat, the person that's leading the people to that success. And it's kind of interesting. You talked about coaches, right? I I coached 17 years of football, I've coached wrestling track. That's where I learned my leadership style is through coaching and how I can help kids learn things, but also teaching as well. And that's why I look at my leadership as more of a coach than I do like the authoritarian, you know, dictatorship model. I don't, I'm not a big fan of that. I'm more like, how can I support help you so you can get what you need, so you can go out there and be successful in the game, because I'm not in your classroom teaching anymore. You know, I'm not doing that no more. I'm there to support you to do the best you can. And so I really think that's really cool that we kind of both have that similar experiences in different in different ways. And so let's talk about you know, your book about becoming a department chair. Tell me what you want people to take away from that when you wrote that book.

Dr. Chris Jochum: 18:32

Well, uh again, like I said, about five, six years ago now, my first book was to help people really in middle-level leadership roles in higher ed. And the reason for that, I don't know if we can ever fully be prepared when we take that initial or formal step into the titled role. But, you know, unlike folks like yourself that go into school leadership, you know, you have to take a master's level program. You do learn, at least you're intentional, right? About learning some things about leadership and curriculum leadership and budget and law. In higher ed, essentially, you can be the best professor on campus. And that in and of itself usually qualifies you to move into leadership. And unfortunately, what makes you successful as a as a professor, in and of itself, does not lend itself to leadership. In some ways, it's the antithesis. So I wrote the first book simply because I wanted to help people and those that are in the organizations being led by those folks, primarily in colleges and universities. I wanted to one, show them that you can go into college or university leadership and it can be rewarding, but you need to do it for the right reasons and you have to have a growth mindset. So that was the main reason. And as I said before, there are great books out there on higher ed leadership. I just wrote the book that I think would have helped me personally when I was starting out. And so that was the impetus for for the first book. And and I think it's you know been well received and and has has helped some people. So I I I think I've been successful in that regard.

Principal JL: 20:12

You bet, you bet. I really enjoyed that insight about that first book. Now, your newest book, you don't have to leave the lead, a practical guide to a teacher leadership. So tell us about that book. What inspired this book? You know, how did it come together? And then what are some of the big takeaways you want people to get out of that book?

Dr. Chris Jochum: 20:34

Okay. Well, you know, what inspired it? Again, as I've said, I've always been interested in leadership. And and I think those of us that are teachers, we always look at how can I leverage what I'm doing right now? You know, I I'm I'm involved with this activity. Is there something that I could bring into my classroom? Is there something I could learn from this? And so I've always thought that way. And as I said, about five, six years ago, kind of by accident, I was asked to teach a special topics class in our department. And maybe, like a lot of you, I had heard the term teacher leadership. And I thought, you know, maybe it was just another one of those buzzwords that fill in the blank. I don't want to say any, but you know, over the years that you know, you you show up on a Monday for an in-service and it kind of goes along with your coffee and your donut, and okay. And so I almost challenged myself to say, okay, what is this here? And I learned that for about 40 years now, there's been research, if you're into that, that has shown us that when we empower classroom teachers, when we do what I call give people perspective and permission, to understand their inherent superpowers as leaders and to unleash that in a good way, both in the classroom, the school, the district, and the community. The research is pretty clear. We never say cause causes with correlation, but we say it tends to go alongside increased student achievement, increased faculty morale, and teacher retention, which I think right now we would all say I need more of that. And so the more I started looking at this, what happened is I taught the class for about four years. I taught it to future teachers, I taught it to seasoned teachers, current admin, a bunch of people would sign up for it for extra credit, whatever. And eventually the students, especially The teachers said, This is really valuable. This should be in a book. So I took a lot of the activities we were doing, took a lot of my own, you know, the videos I would make, and essentially put it into the book that just came out. And what I want people to take away from it is first of all, I wrote this to be conversational and to be developmental. So it is as if I were in front of your faculty at a meeting or training. Now there are some things in there that there's some research to support it, but certainly after the first couple chapters, it is developmental in nature. And my goal is to not give you something more to put on your plate, but instead to use this as a way to strengthen that plate. I use the analogy, Jeff, that that training up your staff to be leaders from where they are is akin to asking your athletes to eat well and lift weights. It's not just one more thing, it's something that is necessary so we don't have problems down the road. So I want them to take away that everyone is a leader. You have more inherent ability to control not only your environment, but your reactions and in part what you get back. And you have a lot, lot of inherent talent and ability to mentor and work with your colleagues and your community members. We talk about, I talk about conflict management. I talk about how to develop a mission statement, how to go through and identify culture, you know, culture, climate, and core values, all of these things that Fortune 500 companies spend a lot of money training their leaders to do. Teachers do inherently, and my goal is to just help them uncover and then enhance what they can already do.

Principal JL: 25:40

Awesome. I think that's really powerful because I I agree with that because it's a shared leadership, right? To where, hey, you know, I know I'm leading in this capacity, but you're leading your classroom, you're leading the sports team, you're leading, you know, this group of kids, you're leading that group of kids. You know, leadership, I look at it, and you know, you lead from where you are, right? Exactly what you're talking about. Whatever capacity that is, you have the power to influence those people to get better at what they need to do so they can be successful. And if everybody understands that from you know, you know, building principals, APs, classroom teachers, even students can learn how to become good leaders. You know, when you have all those things working together, you're just gonna have more success because then that takes the pressure off of you know, me as a principal going, yeah, I don't have to do everything. You know, I have people that are, you know, we're working together, we're collaborating. And so I think that's really important for people to understand is you cannot do these, you know, be a principal or be in type of leadership without the people underneath helping you with that by collaborating, and how are you empowering them to do that? So I think that's a key right there is how is you as a leader empowering the people so they can feel comfortable with leading? Because there's some people that probably will like, I don't know, but then when you give them the okay, because I always talk to my staff, don't be afraid to fail, don't be afraid to try something different, have a growth mindset. And when they knew that it was okay to do something that may sound crazy, but then they tried it and they were like, Oh, this worked well, or ah, did it work so well? I mean, you give them that empowerment to do what they need to do to get better, and so I think it's really great that you actually have a book about it. So that's awesome.

Dr. Chris Jochum: 27:38

Yeah, and and what you touched on, Jeff, is for the administrators listening, and maybe the the ironic thing about a book like this is folks that are already doing the great things you're doing, you get it, right? Yeah, um, but just to use a coaching analogy, and you know, uh my high school football coach, another person, another reason I I became a teacher and thought I would be a coach for a while, you know. But you know, you use that analogy is training up people on your staff, empowering them as leaders, even if they don't ever want to go into formalized leadership, it's no different than making sure that everyone on the football team can reach a certain standard, because then when you practice, everyone's better. You know, I mean the you know, you're some days you're only as good as your, you know, the second stringers you're practicing against. And so, and I don't mean that in a bad way, I mean the more that admin can can empower the people on their team, the stronger the people are, the stronger the team is. So I really appreciate that you mentioned that.

Principal JL: 28:39

Awesome. Well, Chris, do you have any examples of how principals or educational leaders can help build up their teachers? Do you have anything, any advice for them that to help them get started?

Dr. Chris Jochum: 28:52

Well, I mean, I mean this sincerely, listen to podcasts like yours because honestly, there's a lot of great stuff out there and it's going to help them. I would say if they're a little hesitant or they're just, hey, curious, you know, I'm curious. What how could I do this? Honestly, I think my book would be a great resource for them. I would start a couple different ways to start. First of all, I would challenge people. How well do you know? I call it know your roster. You gotta know your roster. How well do you know the people on your team? And that's everyone from whoever, you know, whoever is on your grounds crew to, I mean, all the adults on the team. How well do you know them? And to what extent are you doing things that aligns with their goals and what they like to do? It doesn't mean you're a pushover, it doesn't mean everyone gets their way, but since I think I know that great leadership is is relational, that might be the first place to start. Okay, you don't have to buy some some big curriculum, you don't have to do something. How well do I know my people? And then if you want to go the next a next step further, and this might be off for the K-12 world, but I don't think so. But you can tell me if it is, Jeff, is have what I call stay interviews. Ask people, you know, why wait until somebody leaves to have an extra interview? Hey, here's what I've noticed you do well. What is it about this place that that means a lot to you? What are some things that you'd like to fix? So that's that's something that that I know has worked for myself and others. And if somebody is wanting to just try one thing that will have a good return on investment, lean into your people, get to know them, and then step back and say, to what extent am I creating an environment where this aligns with what they want to do? And then the the big thing, and if I'm a big James Clear fan, is keep it simple, boil everything down to what do I what habit or habits do I or we need to change on a daily basis to affect this down the road?

Principal JL: 31:00

1% better, baby.

Dr. Chris Jochum: 31:02

Yep, exactly. Yep, yep. So I would say get to know people and then just take baby steps because you know in K-12, one just do one thing at end of the school year, you've done 180 something times. Yeah, a lot better, you're a lot better in in in May than you were in August. So you've improved.

Principal JL: 31:19

Well, that's awesome that you mentioned that because that's our mantra at our school. And at the end of at the beginning of the day, we do announcements and we talk, you know, we do the little announcement, and it says, you know, be 1% better today, go tigers. I mean, that's kind of how we start the day. And it's something that I started a couple years ago with, hey, how are you being 1% better? How are you stacking these things? You know, Atomic Habits is the book you're probably referring to with James Claire, which is a great book. I I would recommend it as well, as well as your book, too. Um, yeah, so on that end, you know, you know, if people are thinking about, you know, getting into leadership, there may be a teacher that's, you know, I'm not sure this is for me. What advice would you give them?

Dr. Chris Jochum: 32:07

Well, you know, I I wrote a chapter in my book that walks you through developing your your mission statement. Okay. And the and the other reason, one of the main reasons I wrote the book is if you can imagine a bell curve, and statistically the left end is usually a lower number, the right end is the higher number. On that left end, if you have a person, a teacher, who is maybe one bad day, one angry email or phone call away from saying I'm done, or on the other side, you have a teacher who, hey, is being a principal or an AP for me. I hope that this empowers that person that's maybe one bad day away from leaving the profession to realize they have a lot to offer and that maybe there's some things in there by empowering themselves and their outlook that'll change it. Those on the other end, because as you know, hey, there's a teacher shortage, but there's also an administrator shortage. And so we need to make sure that the people that are going into the roles that Jeff and others do are doing it for the right reasons, just as much as that kindergarten teacher is doing it for the right reasons. So I say that because if somebody is like is leadership for me, challenge yourself. Why do you do what you do? What do you hope to enable people to do or to become as a result of that? And if you come to the realization that while we all love our kids, you know, our students in our classroom, if you come to the realization, though, that maybe indirectly you might be able to serve more people from a different vantage point, I'd encourage you to look at formalized leadership. If you are thinking, well, I like what I do, but I'm at a point in my life where I want different challenges, there are some things if you enhance your teacher leadership abilities that'll help you there. So I, you know, it's a long answer because it's hard to just say one thing, but I would say, first of all, identify where you're at on that that bell curve. And even if you're right in the middle, look at that. That what I what I walk you through is this kind of this leadership mission statement. And I do it with organizations too, but this is an individual level. And then just step back and use that as kind of your your guiding light, so to speak, is hey, this is what I hope to make people feel. This is what I hope to enable them to become. And if you can do that for more people from a leadership perspective, go for it. If being the world's best fourth grade teacher for the next five years is how you do it, then that's awesome too.

Principal JL: 34:43

Awesome. Great advice there. I loved it. That bell curve idea or being able to kind of figure out where they're at is really powerful because you know, some people may not just know, you know, not know where they're at. And so knowing where they're at and making a plan to get where they want to go is is a very powerful tool as well. So, Chris, you've been in education for a long time. You know, are there some things out there that you wish you knew back then that you know now that you might be able to share with other people? I mean, we can't take all night, but it can give you one or two stories.

Dr. Chris Jochum: 35:17

Oh my gosh. Well, here, you know, here's the first thing. And I tell my, you know, I'm fortunate where I work, I chair a large teacher education department, and reminding people the job is hard because it's hard. And average, statistically average, then the everyday average person does not have what it takes to be a K-12 teacher, and that's okay. Is our K-12 teachers and administrators are entering a profession that in some ways is as elite, being good at their craft is just like a professional athlete. Very few humans on the planet can do it and sustain it. So it's hard because it's hard. And so I wish many, many years ago, and this was long before you know the books that you and I have read, and you know, go growth mindset and all of that was even in the vernacular, but just the understanding that we can grow, we can get better as teachers, and that we oftentimes have a lot more to offer than we realize. The other thing is even though we can become somewhat isolated as teachers on a day-to-day basis, please realize that there are more people rooting for you than against you. And whether you're a young teacher struggling or a more experienced teacher, I wish I had realized early on just how many people are in your corner as a teacher, whether it's your colleague next door or even the principal or whoever, don't hesitate to reach out and ask. It's not a sign of weakness, it's a sign of strength. Realize that people are there to help you. And if you ask for that help, they are going to speak into you and help you more than you realize. So, those are a couple of things right there that looking back that close to 30 years ago, I wish I would have known.

Principal JL: 37:08

There you go. Well, that's really good advice, very good perspective there to kind of help people. And I'm pretty sure a lot of people can resonate with that. So, Chris, what's up, what's next for you? What are you up to besides you know being department chair at Fort Hay State? You know, you have your book. I mean, I also know you have the CJ Leadership Solutions Company. So tell us about that and and what you're up to now.

Dr. Chris Jochum: 37:35

Well, you know, as you mentioned, real pleased, you know, the book hasn't been out too long, and and you know, really pleased so far with some of the feedback and hope that it could just continue to help people. A few years ago, I did start an LLC because been asked to do some you know, training, keynote speaking, coaching with K-12, higher ed, and even you know, corporate space. So certainly not my full-time job, but I am I really do enjoy doing that and hope to do more of it. And so obviously, if people are listening and there's any way I can be a service, please let me know. So I continue to you know get better at that, just as teachers always get better at their craft. I want to get better at at doing that. Have sometime, probably mid-2026, my colleague and I, Dr. Scott Gregory, we have a book coming out that we edited, and it's Profiles in Educational Leadership, where we reached out across the country to folks that are well-known superintendents, principals, asked them some questions. And again, that's designed to be a guide for new leaders, current leaders, all of the above that we hope that will come out maybe mid-2026. And then also challenging myself, you know, I wrote a book for higher ed, and I have a book now for K-12. My next project that I want to start working on is a general leadership book. So isn't really specific to higher ed or K-12, but maybe more reflective of the books like you mentioned, that you know, atomic habits and and the things that have really helped me that are just general leadership and relational principles. So hope to work on that as well.

Principal JL: 39:16

Awesome. It sounds like you're gonna keep yourself busy, that's for sure. Chris, this has been a great conversation. I really enjoy having you on the podcast today. So if people wanted to reach out and connect with you, how could they do that?

Dr. Chris Jochum: 39:32

Yeah, well, first thing is you can go to my website, that's cjleadership.com. That has my contact or my email. The best way to email me is Chris at cjleadership.com. So my website, you can email me. You can there's a formalized form where you can put your name and some of your notes. You can have links to my books, you can kind of see some testimonials, things that I've done. So yeah, start with cjleadership.com and that should uh take you where you want to go.

Principal JL: 40:01

Awesome. And then for everybody that's listening, I'll put that information in the show notes. I also put a link to his books and everything like that. So everything, Dr. Chris Jochum, is gonna be in the show notes today. So, Chris, it was great having you on the show today. I'm gonna go ahead and let you go. You have anything you would like to say before we go?

Dr. Chris Jochum: 40:23

Well, hey, just thank you to you and and all you're doing. Really, really appreciate it. And I again thank you for having me on your show. It's an honor to be a part of this.

Principal JL: 40:34

Awesome. Well, I'll see you down the road. What a conversation with Dr. Chris Jochum. His work is strengthening educators at every level. And we're grateful for the insights he shared with us today. If you find this episode insightful, please share it with someone that needs to hear it. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss another insightful episode like this one. Until next time, be curious and 1% better.